Zwitter ion(,

Zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin

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Other sources claim the definition is an ion with both a negative and positive formal charge somewhere in the structure. I am of the zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin that zwitterion refers only to the form of a molecule with one acidic and and one basic group where positive and negative formal charges are present at the same time, such that the net charge is zero.

Therefore, a molecule could only be a zwitterion at its isoelectric point. At other pHs it would be anionic or cationic. The way the article is written now makes it seem like any amphoteric molecule is a zwitterion, when it would only be so at a particular pH, and then only if it had one acidic and one basic moiety. I want to make sure this is an accepted definition before I dive in and rewrite the page; any opinions?

A buffer always contains a weak acid and conjugate base in equilibrium. A zwitterion on its own could not function as a buffer. Quinonoid zwitterion is not a typical zwitterion it should therefore not rank with the typical zwitterions rikXL I added dipolar compounds, but I am not quite sure about the interpretation.

In contrast to ampholytes that are redirected to zwitterionic compounds, suggesting them to be zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin. A more explicit explanation of the difference is desirable. Is there a specialist? Both seem a bit sparse. I moved one sentence to the second paragraph, because 1,2-dipolar compounds and 1,3-dipolar compounds are not really examples, I would say these are rather subclasses.

A further possibility would be to move the sentence to the end of the article and additionally give some examples for both kinds of dipolar compounds. But I would not do that because I still think that this article should not include to much about dipolar compounds. But I have to admit that the new version underlines also the difference of the definitions and is much better structured. I think, the problem is that there are not clear and generally accepted definitions or are there?

Zwitterions and dipolar compounds both are neutral and have positive and negative charge. Therefore the article could be named " neutral polar compounds". There are zwitterions with more than two; e. A useful distinction can be the presence of both acidic and basic groups ampholytes. Some people consider zwitterion and ampholyte synonym see Isoelectric pointbut ampholytes are only zwitterions at their isoelectric point.

By the way, I redirected ampholyte to Amphoterismoriginally with this title. The key difference is that in dipolar compounds the charges are delocalized. I see no evidence from the Gold Book that both topics should belong in the same page V8rik talk The article shows the resonance structures for an isocyanide, but no or few self-respecting organic chemist would call that a zwitterion.

In fact they would view RNC as a non-example. So I was thinking of replacing this image with zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin non-controversial example such as glycine at neutral pH.

Related to the debate, here are my opinions: Resonance structures are not zwitterions. In fact resonance structures are not even real, just a concept, so it does not matter what we call them, and this article is about a class of real compounds. At least that is how I see the world. I also recommend that we remove the image of resonance structures of isocyanide.

It is clear from the discussion above that a consensus has been reached amongst experienced editors. I add my voice to emphatically deny that dipolar compounds have anything to do with zwitterions. The article has been revised accordingly. Dubious examples, including sulphonates that are not normally zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin to be protonated, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin, have also been removed.

Zwitterion is a general term for any neutral molecule with a positive and a negative electrical charge by incompetent edits the definition is extended to non-neutral molecules now. Amino acids as well as 1,2- and 1,3-dipolars have formal charges and real zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin. The Gold Book is often simply the only online reference.

I certainly do not say they are always good, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin. I think they had some trouble with making an artificial distinction between between zwitterions and dipolar compounds.

Clinging to that idea leads to spasmodic adaptations, such as "they tend not to be regarded as zwitterions because they can also be written as uncharged molecules with a dative covalent bond". This is not based on reliable sources. Nitrogen vancomycin resistant enterococci and zyvox amino acids will not have a full unit positive charge, because zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin will interact with all other atoms, but it has a full unit formal charge.

On the other zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin, nitrogen in "dipolars" also has a full unit formal charge. Apart from the fact that the Gold Book does not say that dipolar compounds are not zwitterions and neither the reverse, we can see the general usage in literature, including the Criegee zwitterion.

So I propose to distinct:. This discussion is going nowhere. I am removing zwitterion from my watch list. Until you have unambiguous support on this talk page to make changes, do not edit this article.

Wickey-nl, I think you need to take a more dispassionate approach. Take a broad view, see whether on the whole, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin, in the literaturechemists consider dipolar compounds to be a subset of zwitterions or not.

Consult several many authoritative sources, see if they agree. Do not go out specifically looking for sources that agree with your belief. Try and quantify how much of the literature agrees with you and how much does not. Not an easy task, but give it a shot. The onus is on you to prove your case. Chris is not required to give a source. He also made the point that despite the similarities between zwitterions and dipoles that you mention, dipoles are fundamentally different because their positive and negative charges are linked electronically i.

Pitty that this non-discussion is still based on bluff and and poor arguments. The suggestions of a "sort of agenda" and the only relevant reference in the article, from the generally accepted Gold Book, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin, to be unreliable are the most strong arguments so far.

If it were so simple, a definition without dipolar compounds could easily be made. Zwitterion is not about the question from where to where charges go. It is simply about "Neutral compounds having formal unit electrical charges of opposite sign". In amino acids, three hydrogens and a carbon are sharing electrons with N; in trimethylamine oxidezwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin, three carbons and an oxygen are sharing electrons with N. In both cases N donates a lone pair, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin.

You ignore the trimethylamine oxide example in the Gold Book definition. Even in your manipulated definition ylides, etc. Good start, but not as comprehensive a survey as we need for this apparently contentious issue.

The fact that the Gold Book bothers to mention that " Zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin chemists restrict the term [zwitterion] to compounds with the charges on non-adjacent atoms " suggests it is a skin diseases and treatment plan held by a significant proportion of chemists.

On its own, the term "some chemists" could in principle mean as few as two. Definition 1 means the view that dipolar compounds are a kind of zwitterion. Definition 2 zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin to the view that dipolar compounds are not zwitterions.

You asked for an expert, and you got three. Chris, Smokefoot and Petergans are all professional chemists. They have PhDs and have taught in universities. These guys feel comfortable interpreting the Gold Book flexibly or ignoring it at times, because they are experts and the Gold Book is a general sort of thing, not to be trusted above all else.

I trust their judgement more than your reliance on synthesis and inference from a handful of source. That is what I am trying to find. At the moment, this article is looking like a good candidate for Wikipedia: Nor there is a reason to distinct delocalized and non-delocalized electrons.

Zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin are your opinion. I think it is often appropriate to make a distinction between delocalised and localised electrons, zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin.

However, neither your opinion nor mine matters to this article. The article needs to take a dispassionate, neutral view. You and I both know that. Better still, we spend the time adding new content to this and other articles.

I think the best thing to do is say what the Gold Book says: Then we can forget all about this tedious debate about a minor point. You specifically said "Nor there is a reason to distinct delocalized and non-delocalized electrons". In response, I said "I think it is often appropriate to make a distinction between delocalised and localised electrons". Now you reply "I did not say the distinction between delocalised and localised electrons is unimportant". So which is it? This debate has been a waste of time.

I do not care about definitions. Understanding and explaining the actual chemistry is much more important.


Zwitter ion effect and ciprofloxacin